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5-potnoodle
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Joined: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:22 am Reply with quote Back to top

I apologise if this has been covered in a previous post but I think I've found the definitive fix for the problem of the speedo needle jumping up and down.

It's been an intermittent but regular problem with my dash and a tap to the top right-hand side of the speedo usually brought it back to normal operation. Having bruised my knuckles a couple of times I decided to remove the thing and see if I could fix it once and for all and so far I appear to have done just that. My cruise control works properly now and the computer now gives a correct reading for mpg and average speed.

Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of your technical skills, if in any doubt seek help Exclamation

To remove the instrument panel:

    Remove steering wheel, not strictly necessary but makes it much easier and recommended.
    Remove the peice of trim running the length of the instrument panel (three cross-head screws)
    Remove steering column covers (two screws to remove and the two halves are clipped together, should come apart by gentle prising)
    Remove securing screws for instrument panel
    Gently ease the instrument panel towards you to gain access to the wiring loom plugs on the rear. On the back of the plugs there is a locking clip which needs to be lifted (not removed) before unplugging. Fingernails are probably best for this.

Once you have unlocked and removed the plugs, the instrument panel should now be free to remove from the dash.


On the back of the dash instrument panel there is a plastic cover which when removed contains a printed circuit board. On the main part of the instrument cluster there is another pcb which contains all the instrument light bulbs, this does not have to be removed. If you remove the four screws which holds the speedo onto this pcb and pull it forwards you will see that there are two sets of long pins which, when the speedo is mounted, locate into what looks like a couple of pc jumpers (they are green on mine) but they are actually sockets which are permanently soldered onto the pcb. If you look at the pins, roughly where they come into contact with the sockets you may see a dark line (carbon build-up). Get a pencil rubber and rub on the pins to remove the carbon till they are nice and clean again. Next, find something very thin and slot it between the plastic cover of the socket and the metal inserts inside it. The idea here is to try and close the inserts up a bit so the pins when inserted make a firm contact. (A tiny squirt of switch cleaner may help but make sure it is not harmful to plastics.) Be very careful not to destroy the plastic covering whilst doing this. (If you do, it's not the end of the world, just replace the pin arrangement with some wire to permanently solder the speedo connections.)

Check the other pcb for obvious dry solder joints (did all mine on previous attempts to fix, only fixed the fuel guage) then refit the whole thing (fitting is the reversal of removal) and try it.

Mine has now been perfect for over a week when normally I'd be thumping the speedo five or six times in a short journey.

Hope that helps someone.

Ian

Edits: Added panel removal instructions and clarified the jumper/socket confusion


Last edited by 5-potnoodle on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total 
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cq20v
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well done! Smile

_________________
2007 Skoda Fabia vRS SE
1995 80 quattro Sold, died, sold
1994 80 \"Project Titan\" - Now deceased
1993 S2 Coupe - Sold (gutted)
1989 CQ20V - Sold
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5-potnoodle
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Joined: Jul 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Nearly a month now and it's still working perfectly Very Happy
 
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motchy87
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hey, many thanks for your description. My 1993 80 developed this problem recently. I removed the instrument cluster and cleaned up the two sets of long pins with a rubber and emery board as they had become tarnished in carbon build up over time. Put it all back together and 1800 miles later, still working perfectly!

Thank you! Very Happy
 
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Toomanytoys
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Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, dry joints and oxidisaton common problem.. mine occasional stopped working, but sems to be ok since I had to have to out to check the flasher relay...

Where in Lincs are you 5 potnoodle? I am reg at my parents in Spalding... Actually will be moving back up there shortly... Rolling Eyes
 
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5-potnoodle
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Posts: 87
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hi TMT, I'm in Louth.

Unfortunately, I don't currently own a 200, or any Audi come to that. It was a sad day when I had to sell her, I'm now the indifferent owner of a 99 Subaru Forester S-Turbo (an Impreza for grown-ups), nowhere near as much fun but parts are easy to get hold of. I was forced into some tough economic decisions trying to keep my 200 on the road as a daily driver big enough for a double bass (thanks Audi for your lack of support!! Mad )

I will have another 200 Avant one day, the torsen quattro system from the late 80's is still way better than any Scooby 4WD system and 5 cylinders sound better than boxers. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Current:
99 Subaru Forester S-Turbo
91 Reliant Scimitar 1400 SST
Previous:
Two consecutive 1989 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo Avant, 1B (would like another one please)
1990 Audi 100 SE Avant, NF
1986 Audi 100 CD Avant, KU
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audioc
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

made into a "sticky"- many thanks. Very Happy (better late than never!)

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Wemyss
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Joined: Feb 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe an idea to have a read of this if you have this problem

I did all of the above several times with no joy. Replaced the clocks, PCB etc several times and still no joy. I then went to the sensor (right hand side of gearbox, when looking from front, just above the drive shaft, well on the 80/90 at least Laughing ) and took off the connection. I could not see any of the metal contacts for the excess of green crap that had built up. Give the contacts a good clean and I am now as good as new.

The symptoms were roughly the same. Speedo would jump around all over the place, sometimes worked sometimes did not. Usually in the morning when cold it very rarely worked.

You can also take the entire sensor out to clean, it just rotates around and slips out.

Just another wee bit of advice if you are having this problem Very Happy

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06 A4 3.0 TDI SLine Quattro
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89 90Q 2.3 20v (Dead)
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thepimp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I just tried this, now my speedo doesn't work at all.

Are the green jumpers supposed to be connecting the two long pins?

If so, why are they there at all, why don't they just have a permanent connection?


Have I "broken" the jumpers, as I removed the "female" bits from the green plastic housings, to clean them too.

The rest of the dash works, just the speedo is affected.



Shall I just solder the two pins together?



Cheers,

Steve

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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Wemyss
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

While this subject has come back to life again I may as well give an update on my situation.

The clean up of the sensor only worked for a short while and in the end (after various jumping symptoms and only working when warm) I ended up with no speedo what so ever. Took the sensor out and replaced it and no problems since.

It really is worth checking the sensor as this can be the problem. For example I had the clocks out more time than I care to remember and even took the original speedo part to bits for it never to work again. I.e. at least the sensor is an easy check where you are less likely to create even more problems for yourself Laughing

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Mark

06 A4 3.0 TDI SLine Quattro
96 UrS6
88 90 2.0 10v (Pastures new)
89 90Q 2.3 20v (Dead)
99 A4 2.5 TDI (Pastures new)
89 Coupe 2.2E (Pastures new)
95 80 TDI (Pastures new)

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thepimp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Wemyss,

Mine had the usual "whack it and it would work" symptom, as well as the lights going dim after 30 minutes. A whack would sort that out too.

So I think it is at the dashboard end rather than the sensor end.

I do have a spare dash, but the autocheck doesn't work on that one, and its from a Turbo 100, so has the boost gauge etc.

Cheers

Steve

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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hibby
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The faulty sensor on the gearbox will throw a fault code. so it would be worth anyone doing this to pull the codes before deciding what route to take.

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Wemyss
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:53 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ahhh the wack it symptom!!!

Yep, definately sounds like something on the instrument side. I bet it has had a few whacks before now Laughing

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Mark

06 A4 3.0 TDI SLine Quattro
96 UrS6
88 90 2.0 10v (Pastures new)
89 90Q 2.3 20v (Dead)
99 A4 2.5 TDI (Pastures new)
89 Coupe 2.2E (Pastures new)
95 80 TDI (Pastures new)

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thepimp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

hibby wrote:
The faulty sensor on the gearbox will throw a fault code. so it would be worth anyone doing this to pull the codes before deciding what route to take.


Its definitely the dashboard side.

I wouldn't know how to pull the fault codes.

It is a 1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro (typ44) with the NF 2.3 KE Jetronic engine.

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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cq20v
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

strip the binnacle and clean the PCB carefully - They do get crudded up (moisture?) and tis what sorted my 80 out eventually.

_________________
2007 Skoda Fabia vRS SE
1995 80 quattro Sold, died, sold
1994 80 \"Project Titan\" - Now deceased
1993 S2 Coupe - Sold (gutted)
1989 CQ20V - Sold
1986 Coupe GT - Deceased
1985 Coupe GT - Deceased 
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5-potnoodle
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Joined: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

thepimp wrote:
I just tried this, now my speedo doesn't work at all.

Are the green jumpers supposed to be connecting the two long pins?


The green jumpers provide the connection from the speedo to the mainboard. They are not meant to be connecting the two speedo pins together. Think of the jumpers as a socket into which the speedo is plugged.

thepimp wrote:


Have I "broken" the jumpers, as I removed the "female" bits from the green plastic housings, to clean them too.

The rest of the dash works, just the speedo is affected.



Yes, I'm afraid you have. The metal connectors inside the jumper housing would have been soldered to the mainboard.

thepimp wrote:


Shall I just solder the two pins together?

Cheers,

Steve


No... but all is not lost.... if you have some thin wire available (maybe some old telephone cable wires or some such like), you can solder one wire directly to each pin from the speedo and the corresponding ends (maintaining correct polarity) to the mainboard where the jumpers... er... fell off Smile What you will end up with is a permanent connection to the mainboard but with flexibility to remove the speedo unit from the mainboard for future problems... sorry, er... audiness Smile

_________________
Current:
99 Subaru Forester S-Turbo
91 Reliant Scimitar 1400 SST
Previous:
Two consecutive 1989 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo Avant, 1B (would like another one please)
1990 Audi 100 SE Avant, NF
1986 Audi 100 CD Avant, KU
1987 VW Passat GL5E Estate, JS
w 
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thepimp
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:22 pm Reply with quote Back to top

ah you beauty. I will try that!

And hopefully my photos will make it clear.

Thanks for your help, I have been driving round for the past 2 weeks using the rev counter as a speedo....... (3400rpm in 5th is 70mph etc......).

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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thepimp
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Sorted it!

Cheers


Steve

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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andicog
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Joined: Feb 13, 2009
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:54 am Reply with quote Back to top

My speedo does this but it also affects the tickover ??? Hitting the dash top cures it for a while but will try the above. Very Happy
 
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thepimp
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Andy,

If you want more photos, I can put more up to help.

Just don't do what I did!

Steve

_________________
1986 Audi 80 1.8 Sport (donor car)
1986 Audi 80 1.6 CL (recipient car)
2003 VW T4 Caravelle 2.5 TDI LWB
1990 Audi 100 2.3 quattro avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 turbo avant
1990 Audi 100 2.2 auto - only goes in reverse 
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jabba
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Joined: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 24
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ian ,
You're a star as this problem has been driving me nuts and I'm going to try it this weekend
Thanks
Jabba Very Happy
 
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jabba
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ian ,
I have done as you suggested and it works brilliantly
Thanks
Jabba Very Happy
 
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Chirpy
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Joined: Sep 14, 2009
Posts: 112
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ian
Great post - really useful. I must congratulate you on your excellent work on this. I have done exactly the same thing (twice - but I have had the car 12 years) and you are spot on withyour diagnosis. If I recall from memory, my speedo has 4 pins on it, am I wedged a bit of a paperclip (slighty sanded down) into the connections and it works perfectly.
In sum, if there is anything that can be fixed by a large hit to the top of the dash, then this is the fault. Look no further.
Well done.

AMC
 
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missfire
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Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/trouble_shooting/instrument.html#speedo

did this fix and it worked good!
 
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