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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

could anyone with some technical data to hand please check if the injectors from the 5 Cylinder NG and from what im led to beleive the KV will fit the 4 cylinder 3A engine

ive looked on the GSF website and according to them all 3 use the same injector ( all have the same part no ). Just want to confirm before i buy some new ones

also has anyone ever fitted them before?

Would i be looking at alot for a garage to fit?

cheers
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:40 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Common part fitted to lots of Audi engines

035 133 551 F

Some engine codes which share this injector are

KV, NG, ACE, MB, DZ etc

They're not that difficult to replace. What you have got to watch is the seats and the seals. Chances are the old seals will be rotten.

The inserts often go brittle and fall apart so will need replaced. You'll need to remove the seats from the head. 13mm allen key fitting if I remember.

New seals will be with the new injectors.

Getting the old ones out is much trickier than getting the new ones in. This is the official tool

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290590650211 - use in conjunction with a couple of large screwdrivers or a slide hammer

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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

437 698 671 C is the part number for the injectors that i have my eye on, or the only part number i have to hand. Maybe this is the number for the seals.

It is said to fit the audi 100 1990 2.3e

although if memory serves the 2.3e in the audi 100 differs from the 90 2.3e

do you know if this is correct mike? If poss can you tell me what this number is?

Do you think there will be any noticable difference in performance etc as my tick over my quite lumpy and the garage rekon it could be injector related as it splutters to life in the morning
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

That number is for a brake caliper seal kit.

Have the injectors been tested for leaking / spray pattern ? Sounds like the garage is guessing

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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

no they havent been tested, ive read a few problems about leaking injectors and the problems they cause and maybe put 2 and 2 together. The garage said they couldnt say for sure but said it was a posibility and to be honest i didnt want to spend the money on it as its been like it for such along time ive gotten used to it Laughing

thanks for checking the numbers ill message the seller and try and get the correct part number

do you have to have that removal tool?
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The removal tool is pretty shit to be honest.

A couple of large screwdrivers can be used. It really depends how bad the seals are. If they've bonded to the seats, the injectors can be difficult to shift. Spraying some WD40 in to the injector seats can help

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hoolio
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:27 am Reply with quote Back to top

Mikes2 wrote:
The removal tool is pretty shit to be honest.

A couple of large screwdrivers can be used. It really depends how bad the seals are. If they've bonded to the seats, the injectors can be difficult to shift. Spraying some WD40 in to the injector seats can help


I got an old kitchen knife bent the end over an ground a groove in it until it fitted the injector snugly (it also doubles up to remove valve stem seals)
I'd suggest testing the spray pattern before shelling out though.

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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

so am i right in assuming that even if the spray pattern is not right would the engine not start as it should or drive correctly
 
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hoolio
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:37 am Reply with quote Back to top

jamiecoysh wrote:
so am i right in assuming that even if the spray pattern is not right would the engine not start as it should or drive correctly


it would run to a varying degree of roughness i believe

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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

the car when driving is perfect its just the idle is lumpy the engine shakes at idle, A bit like theres no engine mounts holding it, or like its got a 1970's V8 under the bonnet.

when its first sting in the morning it splutts for about 5 seconds then is fine
 
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hoolio
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:39 am Reply with quote Back to top

I'd replace both large and small seals and check spray pattern. The seals are cheap enough from Audi , it's easy enough to do and won't take long

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jamiecoysh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

ok had a reply back from the chap regarding the part number for the injectors

he's come back and said the number for the injectors is 049 133 551A

can anytell me what this number is for Laughing
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

They won't fit. They're for early 80s cars. The fit the WR, KE, KG, JS, KK etc engines up to about 85

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EightyWay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

Hi, I've had my injectors out and "cleaned" (even the inlet manifold - seats in good shape). Anyway, how do I check the spray pattern on an Ace 16v? I tried removing the cylinder 1 injector and putting it in a redex bottle and the starting the engine. It wouldn't start. Do I remove an injector whilst it is running?
 
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hoolio
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

EightyWay wrote:
Hi, I've had my injectors out and "cleaned" (even the inlet manifold - seats in good shape). Anyway, how do I check the spray pattern on an Ace 16v? I tried removing the cylinder 1 injector and putting it in a redex bottle and the starting the engine. It wouldn't start. Do I remove an injector whilst it is running?


On my 6A I used the brass metal bridge in the fuse box to bridge the fuel pump removed all 4 injectors and had them dangling in 4 glass jars them with the rubber inlet pipe off I carefully lifted the flap in the metering head and observed their squirtiness Wink

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EightyWay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, that makes sense. I read about bridging the relay before but I did not realise it was with the brass thingy (didn't know what it was). I was looking to put a fuse in the fuel pump relay but it wouldn't fit.

So I remove the brass bridge and place it in the fuel pump relay position? FYI My fuel pump is pretty damn noisy but works well. I'll keep a fire extinguisher to hand.

Cheers
 
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hoolio
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

EightyWay wrote:


So I remove the brass bridge and place it in the fuel pump relay position? FYI My fuel pump is pretty damn noisy but works well. I'll keep a fire extinguisher to hand.

Cheers


yup...my pumps been a buzzing away for some 10+years now Rolling Eyes I'm sure I'll get round to it one day...

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EightyWay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Great. By the way, is this the same configuration used for a timing gun (with the injectors in of course)?
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

the Z bridge is fitted to manual gearbox cars. In automatics, there is a relay in that position which locks the starter unless park is engaged

When you put the z bridge in position 10 in place of the fuel pump relay, the pump will instantly start running. no need for the key or ignition.

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EightyWay
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Cheers lads, just gave it a go. The procedure works as described.

So the pump was buzzing away except almost nothing came out of the injectors (No. 3 had a few drops). I was expecting spray. I turned on the ignition thinking that the computer needed to approve fuel flow. Turning on the ignition seemed to be blocked by the z-bridge. As the car is running "fine" I wonder what step I am missing (ACE 16v avant). Fuel tank is full.

Am I missing an extra step to see spray?

The reason I am persevering with this is because:
1. Noisy fuel pump - possibly working harder than it needs too
2. I once let the fuel level drop until the top of the indicated red (1st time tanking with new car) and the car wouldn't start. I managed to push/point it down the hill and it fired - I gingerly drove it to the nearest petrol station and filled about 55 litres - less than the 66l quoted for the car. By sticking to tanking earlier I have not experienced the problem since. I believe the gauge to be accurate.
3. I do have a rough idle problem, but it is possibly unrelated (Lambda 00537 code - transmission mount)

In terms of power the car has exceeded my expectations (I came from a 60hp polo). Economy is reasonable for the model. Am I wasting my time looking at the fueling?

Thanks
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I think on your car, you'll need lift the metering head manually to allow fuel to the injectors.

If you have a rough idle but the car accelerates fine under load with no misfires, I doubt you have a fuelling problem

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hoolio
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

your are lifting up the metering head flap aren't you?

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EightyWay
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Doh! RTFM. Well at least I know it works in the closed position! Thanks a million - I'll repeat the procedure next weekend!
 
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